1.8L to 3100 swap project resumes...

[krasniak]

My aftermarket gauges are Phantom II white faced... 5" large tach and speedo... and an assortment of other small gauges. I don't know if I could adapt them to the Lumina cluster to make the PCM work correctly.

[Six Shooter]

What needs to be run through or with the Lumina gauge cluster? If it's just the VATs enable, there are other ways around that.
_________________
I'm not bossy, I just have better ideas.

People that think they know it all, are really annoying to those of us that really do.

At work rest and play....
Discharge on Mars

[krasniak]

Here's a lengthy update on current progress to the swap...

I'm still deciding what to do for the dash. I don't know what signals must go through the gauge cluster but there are so many idiot lights that I know complete circuits to the PCM, indicating they are connected and giving the PCM resistance by the bulbs themselves in the cluster.

Regarding the Lumina dash I cut to fit the Jbody space... I have given up on the idea of using the Lumina dash (although the instrument cluster is really not bad looking with tach and speedo). I did the cutting as a test fit to see if a newer dash could work if i had to cut down something deeper since most newer cars have a greater rake to their windshields. So I've been scouting for an appropriate dash from something like the Grand Am since there are not many cars as narrow in width as the J-body... only other J-bodies and Grand Ams so far. I don't care much for what I've seen in the yards lately (mostly mid-to-late 90's models) and I really liked my original dash because of how well it accepted after market gauges. Mine is just so cracked up I'm not considering repairing and reusing it. Then there's all the wiring to the instruments...

I don't know what VATs are and I just know that when I removed my original cluster from the Sunbird I lost things like cruise control because the sensor was built into the speedo and the aftermarket sensor I tried to replace it with didn't work. Also, I couldn't replace all the idiot lights from the original dash as LED's on my "new" dash (things like brake, turn signals, door ajar, check engine, high beam, etc.) Although I got most of them to work, I missed 1 or 2. Then the new cluster has additional lights for traction, ABS, airbags, eng hot, oil, etc, etc, and I don't know the best way to handle it unless I fabricate my own dash or get a replacement. Besides, I like the idea of a properly fitting but soft original style dash for safety.

While I think I MAY be able to build a fiberglass custom dash, I haven't tried making anything like custom-fit speaker boxes yet and I would hate to make something that took forever to build only to turn out looking like a low quality piece of crap in a car that otherwise is developing into a show-quality ride. So, that's why I've been scouting for a replacement dash. I also thought that even if the dash was different, most of the wiring would easily splice together, hence my argument for a GA dash of say '99-'05. I like the dual cluster design of those GAs and I figure all the idiot lights would be compatible. I just don't know if the '99 up GA's have the same width as the '98 and earlier models cuz I didn't find any on my last scouting run. I did find a nice uncracked example of a GA that I think was a '96+/- and it seemed to measure the correct width for a swap. I just don't know if I'm down for customizing the duct work for HVAC if I do that swap. So that brings me back to the original dash.

It used to be I'd find many old Cimmarons which had a nearly identical dash to mine and usu. they were unmolested, but I haven't seen one in over a year. I think that would be an ideal swap and keep more of the original feel of my Sunbird, AND then I'd use my Phantom gauges but I'd need to build some kind of panel for the dummy lights as mentioned above. I won't know what can run disconnected/unneeded until I'm closer to starting the car, and maybe with help from someone in the know...

So, here's what I have been working out the last couple of months:
1. Getting the AC lines modded to fit from the '84 body to the new '92 condensor - DONE.
2. Buying AC parts for the change over to R134 - DONE.
3. Installing/adapting power steering lines - DONE.
4. Installing/adapting trans cooler lines - DONE.
5. Installing/splicing both L & R firewall connectors to the body - DONE.
6. Installing shifter and shifter cable - DONE. (from a '95 GA)
7. Installing e-brake handle and cable (from the same GA) - CURRENTLY IN WORK.
8. Installing center console (also from the GA). This fits better than my original because it is narrower and fits btwn my seats from a T-bird which were slightly wider and too snug against my original console - CURRENTLY IN WORK.
9. Trying to fit the 2 underhood fuse/relay panels in that tiny compartment of the '84 without conflicting with existing stuff but still remaining accessible - CURRENTLY IN WORK.
10. Installing ABS brake lines and wires - CURRENTLY IN WORK.
11. Installing dash - CURRENTLY IN WORK.

Still on the horizon...
1. Swapping fuel pump.
2. Fabricating fuel lines.
3. Installing front bumper... I discovered after sanding, that cracks in the paint also seem to run into the urethane part of the nose... thus I'm scouting for a replacement.
4. Installing Cat and remainder of exhaust system.
5. Installing sensors for ABS (fronts easy, rears dunno...?)
6. Wiring alternator - still need to figure out this wiring... no answers have come on my other question thread.
7. Wiring dash for anything other than the original instrument cluster.
8. Wiring in body sensors & relays for door locks, trunk lid, etc.
9. Painting body.

Well, thats all I think of for now...

[v8vega]

www.madelectrical.com is really informative about wiring alternators and other automotive electrical

[krasniak]

Photo update:

I waited it out... I finally found a beautiful and still-flexible original type dash for the Sunbird. Well, not entirely original... its from an 87 Cav and has the extra molding strip running horizontally through the middle of it...



This was the easiest solution... and wouldn't you know it, I found 2 of these in uncracked/undamaged condition on my last jyard visit - I pulled the better of the two. I have updated the above pic as of 05/06/09 showing the recent SEM painting (vinyl dyeing) to orange.

Anyway, below is a picture of my dash with an aluminum gauge cluster I made for it when I was running the 1.8 turbo engine. Since then, I have changed my plans and will run the same gauges in an original dash so will I put the aluminum (1/4" thick) gauge cluster (minus the gauges) for sale on ebay soon. The holes around the gauges are for LED lights. The stereo space is single DIN size and the vent is adjustable and came from a Cadillac. I think I'd like to get $50 after all my labor to make it. Anyone here interested? LMK. BTW, with my Sony aluminum faced stereo it looked bitchin'. Here's a picture (without the stereo shown) ...and the cluster with gauges lit up in the car (note the turbo boost gauge which I never got connected before the engine died - crap):




As you see I didn't want to use some other kind of dash after all. I really love the layout of the original dash.

So, I am captain slow about putting that aluminum panel on eBay, but I thought I'd show how the aluminum panel looked with the Phantom II gauges. Nice, huh? So I chose to stay with the Phantom II's, but I will need assist with any sensor connections to keep everything working in the PCM.

[krasniak]

Update on 05/06/09:
This pic shows the cluster I am using from a Cimmaron with my Phantom II gauges installed. I will use the original instrument cluster as shown below to mate up nicely with the A/C and DIN+1/2 radio space (thanks for the correction). I don't plan to use all the gauges on the aluminum panel since there are idiot lights on the donor car cluster, hence I have added the LED's to this dash. I will be using the original radio from the Lumina donor, (which I Photoshop'd into the picture), so I don't have to worry about BCM signals related to the radio.



At this point I'm afraid I still don't know what VAT's are. Please feel free to explain and share what I will need to do to make these aftermarket gauges work with my 2001 PCM. I have been working on the driver's side wiring under the hood and have finished the air cleaner install. I am close to installing the dash.

More updates:

I have figured out how to make the MAS and old style Z24 air filter work together. It's these kinds of things that will help it pass the visual inspection for CA smog. (Don't worry, I have already talked to referee station supervisors and got "the word" on what needs to be done.)



The goal for the Z24 filter assembly is that I extend the under hood shield from underneath the turbo vents and make the air assembly actually be a sort of "ram air" system... well, fresh air in any case.



The duct shown above is a perfect fit in the tight space between the MAS and the air filter assembly! I didn't want an after market piece here and couldn't fit anything else, so I stayed with the stock assembly and cut and bent the bracket supporting the filter. The duct is a 3" to 3-1/2" rubber adapter duct available all over the internet. On the other hand, the side attached to the air inlet on the engine side of the MAS is a random piece I picked up in the jyard and I can't remember what it came from. It is much shorter than the Lumina piece that was there originally. It is ofset slightly aft and worked out great!

The next piece I started working on a while ago (see pg 2 of this post for details). It's the dynamic strut (lower front dynamic mount) that will keep the engine from rotating when torque is applied. I used the original mount location on the lower subframe bracket and then I modified the original piece off the TH250 (shown below). I finally measured the space and installed the appropriate 1/2" heim links since the space had changed and wouldn't fit the original dog bone.







Nice. And I hope it is strong enough for the monster torque this engine is likely to produce... jk

[Six Shooter]

There are no signals to or from that style radio that interface with the BCM or any other module in the car. It's din and a half BTW.

VATS is Vehicle Anti-Theft System. This is, a resistance based starter and/or fuel disable system.

You can either use a resistor accross the two leads that go to the ignition switch, being VATS, or if it's passlock or or two (I don't know what year donor you're using), you can use some relays and a resistor, since it needs to see the resistance at specific points in starting.

A third option is to build a small circuit that sends the proper signal to the PCM to enable the fuel. On the older ECMs like what was used in F-bodies this was a 50Khz square wave IIRC (off the top of my head). I'm not usre if it's the same for the newer PCMs.

I'd be tempted to use a PCM from a '94 or '95 L-body since they didn't use any sort of anti-theft system.
_________________
I'm not bossy, I just have better ideas.

People that think they know it all, are really annoying to those of us that really do.

At work rest and play....
Discharge on Mars

[krasniak]

So if my radio says Theft Deterrent System on it, doesn't it mean it's wired to the BCM or other VATS stuff? Thanks for the correction on the size... you're right, DIN+1/2. BTW, everything is from 2001 and I can't change back to an older PCM in CA, besides, I have the unfortunate case of having a ULEV 3.1 which has extra air injection plumbing and probably a bunch more stuff that made it a CA emission car to begin with and I have to meet the specs for the engine not the chassis to pass smog.

[Six Shooter]

On that style radio, no it is not connected to the BCM. That would be a code that is held within the radio itself.

The newer radios, that will be double din BTW will have connection to the BCM, but will not prevent the car from starting, if the radio is disconnected.
_________________
I'm not bossy, I just have better ideas.

People that think they know it all, are really annoying to those of us that really do.

At work rest and play....
Discharge on Mars